r/WatchPeopleDieInside
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u/shamansufi
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Feb 04 '23
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Kid stumps speaker
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u/DKdrumming Feb 04 '23
I love how the dude in black at the end of the table just turns and looks at him like "this is gonna be great"
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u/xiero10 Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
The kid is actually the dude in black’s kid. I remember this debate. Idk the guy in black’s name, but the other guy is Eric Hovind, son of Kent Hovind.
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u/TonarinoTotoro1719 Feb 04 '23
If that’s true, when his son asks the question, the dad is like, ‘that’s my boy! Now let me see you get out of this one’ with the nicest smirk.
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u/Pristine-Ad-469 Feb 04 '23
If that was my kid I would be hella proud. That’s some high level deductive reasoning for the age range he sounds to be in (and honestly compared to the average person) AND he helped out his dad in the debate lol
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u/xiero10 Feb 04 '23
If you watch the full debate Eric accused him of having his own kid do this, and he said he didn’t put him up to it and that the kid did it on his own volition. That’s the only reason I know it’s his kid. Gotta love the boy standing up for his dad in a debate, in a wholesome and logical way.
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u/mypetocean Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Eric Hovind just needs to get out of his dad's shadow and move on with his life.
He'll never be the real "Dr. Dino": felon, violent domestic abuser, multiple-time fraudster, conspiracy theorist, "sovereign citizen," and guy who believes democracy to be "evil."
Even other notable Creationists have publically denounced him (on multiple occasions and in a variety of ways) as a liar and a fraudster – and they weren't even talking about his legal issues.
They were talking about deliberate distortions of sources he quotes, continued use of discredited data and claims, refusal to correct erroneous facts, and bad (sometimes self-refuting) logic.
Kent Hovind is a real piece of work. Just read through his Wikipedia entry.
In high school, I had his entire 7-video VHS series memorized. And I'm not exaggerating: I could rattle off any of his arguments, claims, and tidbits in debates and evangelistic attempts with other kids. No one else had that much ammunition, and I could use Hovind's charisma in addition to mine, so I always felt like I won.
But the more I applied a more careful, honest scientific and cognitive approach, the less sense he started making and the more dishonest he appeared. I'm proud of my younger self for distancing from all that, even after having fallen so deeply in.
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u/DestroyTheHuman
Feb 04 '23
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You can’t even… Yeah. You can’t. Th-The argument
Brain: Quick, skip to his age
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u/PsychologicalAsk2315 Feb 04 '23
He almost blew a circuit trying to decide which logical fallacy he wanted to backflip through to win the debate
He settled on "Ad Hominem" and attempted to undermine his opponents credit instead of answering the the question.
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u/Aggressive_Chain_920 Feb 04 '23
I experience this often at my job. I give a point that in my opinion is somewhat solid, and their response is "you are young, you dont understand, when you get older you will see what we mean" and refuse to counter my argument.
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u/bibleboy69420 Feb 05 '23
If they want to address my experience, then bring up the framework I'm missing. As far as I'm concerned, if they can't articulate what it is I don't get, then they're likely not speaking in good faith.
It's so often boomers speaking like this, speaking down to their better educated younger peers. It's rare I deal with this directly, but I fucking hate every single fuck that's done it. They're reliably a detriment to the workplace, and progress.
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u/MasterMementoMori Feb 04 '23
This is Meno’s Paradox of Knowledge. The kid is doing ancient philosophy without even knowing it.
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u/bonobonath Feb 04 '23
There’s a great book by a University of Michigan law professor called “Nasty, Brutish, and short” built on the premise that kids are really good at doing philosophy, they just don’t know it. It’s worth a read if you have kids!
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u/PoisonTheOgres Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Kids are still figuring out how to make sense of the world, so philosophy is very relevant to their day to day lives.
When I was a kid I was constantly thinking about these big questions like "why do people even exist", but now as an adult I'm more worried about mundane things like "when is my next paycheck due"
Edit: this was not meant as some big anti-kapitalist or anti-growing up statement. More mundane thoughts could also be "how can I be the best mom to my kids today" or "hmm, what do I feel like for dinner tonight." Mundane is not necessarily worse, I just have different priorities now and I'm not as worried about my place in the world anymore.
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u/Xarthys Feb 04 '23 •
Which makes me wonder: if humans could have an existence similar to that of a kid, mostly free of responsibilities and plenty of time to explore and learn, how would that impact our overall progress as a species?
Because all the time we spend surviving is less time being creative and less time reflecting and less time thinking about existence and our relationship with the world around us.
And then I wonder, maybe there is a reason why we all are struggling so much, diving into escapist activities, isolating ourselves to not deal with things beyond a certain scope, developing strategies to cope rather than solve, etc.
Our species has the potential to dedicate so much time towards being productive on an entirely different level, but for some reason we have decided to accept that short-term benefits are more valuable, even if we just receive a fraction of the overall effort - while a few at the top take the rest.
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u/LifesASkit Feb 04 '23
“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”
-Stephen jay Gould
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u/Walshy231231 Feb 04 '23
I’m a physicist. You’d be hard pressed to get a degree in physics or math and not realize this shit is a tragedy
The prime example being Ramanujan, who was born in British India. He had no formal teaching at all in mathematics; 100% self taught. The only reason he’s known is because he sent a letter to an English mathematician which blew away western mathematics with tons of new methods and results. He would die just a few years later.
The amount of lost potential is staggering
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u/M_E_R_C_U_R_Y Feb 04 '23
Reminds of that quote, “Talent is equally distributed. Opportunity is not.”
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u/Jmcadres Feb 04 '23
Unrealized potential. In the world of sport, I’ve always thought that we’ve never seen the greatest football/baseball/tennis/etc player. Because they never picked up a football/bat/racquet. Perhaps due to other interests or poverty. And knowing how much of the Earth’s population lives in poverty, let’s just go with poverty.
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u/BraveSneelock Feb 04 '23
The Onion had a good take, as always.
https://www.theonion.com/97-year-old-dies-unaware-of-being-violin-prodigy-1819571799
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u/geeky_username Feb 04 '23
Pick a number for the percentage of "geniuses" or whatever you want to call them.
First, apply that number to the US population of 350 million and see if it feels right, adjust it if you want.
Now take that same number and apply it to the population of India, 1.4 billion. We "should" be seeing a lot more geniuses than we do? Yeah, poverty is a bitch
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u/pm-me-racecars Feb 04 '23
if you take any list of greatest hockey players of all time, most of them will be Canadians.
Canada has about 0.5% of the world population. Even if Canadians were 100x better than average at hockey, if everyone in the world had equal opportunity those lists would still have less Canadians.
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u/Regular_Economist855 Feb 04 '23
If you said this in one of the sports subs they'd call you an idiot (I know this because it's happened to me several times). Reddit is one of the escapist activities OP spoke of. People go to those subs to "isolate themselves to not deal with things beyond a certain scope".
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u/Minor_Thing Feb 04 '23
I guess it makes sense that a lot of the greatest ancient philosophers were in the upper echelons of society. They had the freedom of being able to lounge around, studying and asking these questions and being able to chase them through to a conclusion. They didn't have to worry about where their next meal would come from or spend half their life labouring for someone else.
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u/SmarterThanMyBoss Feb 04 '23
That and poor people were usually illiterate and even if they weren't, no one was listening to them anyway.
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u/brownredgreen Feb 04 '23
Diogenes masturbating noises intensifies
Sure he mighta had parents of Status, but dude lived in a bathtub, stole food from the temples (food left for the gods, as sacrifice)
When challenged on his food stealing ways: "isn't everything in common amongst friends? Are the wise [implying himself] friends with the Gods?"
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u/EASam Feb 04 '23
I like that there weren't millennia of social faux pas codified so the homeless dude that lived in a barrel would show up to a party steal food and beat off in view of the guests and then be invited back to the next event because he said some interesting shit.
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u/brownredgreen Feb 04 '23
I'm.....not sure he got invited. (Not sure he wasn't either. Not a historian.)
Seemed like a guy who might just show up.
E.g. throwing a plucked chicken at Plato
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u/Motts86 Feb 04 '23 •
A gentleman is someone who doesnt need to work for a living; a scholar is someone who dedicates their time to learning. So when someone says you are a gentleman and a scholar, they are saying you are so well off that you can devote your time to learning, rather than making a living by working.
It's something I heard recently from a scholarly gentleman.
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u/zachsmthsn Feb 04 '23
Wait, does that make it a backhanded complement like "Wow, I wish I was born with the ability to draw!"
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u/DudleysCar Feb 04 '23
My mum always said, 'Philosophers never had to wash their own socks'.
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u/SwayzeOfArabia Feb 04 '23 •
"the best way to never need do laundry is to own no clothes" - Diogenes probably
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u/mattattaxx Feb 04 '23
You've basically described the premise behind the states of society in Star Trek. Outside of external threats, everything is taken care of, and people simply pursue things for the sake of it.
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u/c_is_for_nose_8cD Feb 04 '23
The less you eat, drink and read books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save-the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour-your capital. The less you are, the more you have; the less you express your own life, the greater is your alienated life-the greater is the store of your estranged being.
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
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u/Beingabummer Feb 04 '23
Hmmm... it's almost like capitalists would have a good reason to vilify the people telling the working class that there is more to life than making money for the rich...
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u/Duel_Option Feb 04 '23
Star Trek explores this idea fairly well.
Money, food and power are no object and there is peace on earth.
So we figure out a way to leave the planet and go explore the universe bit by bit hopefully taking all the good parts that makes us human and using it for goodwill.
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u/AMeanOldDuck Feb 04 '23
They certainly are. While studying for my Philosophy degree, I volunteered for a uni program which brought philosophy into primary schools that usually couldn't afford to have them.
We'd introduce concepts (and how they might relate to their lives), they'd break off into small groups to talk about them, and then all come back together to have a big discussion at the end.
Usually the discussions were similar to what we'd talk about in our seminars, but at a more rudimentary level.
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u/six_horse_judy Feb 04 '23
I distinctly remember being in fourth grade and my teacher telling us about some gun some historical guy had, and how both the stock and the barrel had been replaced several times, but was still loved like it was the original gun. Child me flipped out like wtf? That's not the same gun though? is it? I ended up not being able to unpack that one until college level philosophy told me about Theseus.
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u/lpjunior999 Feb 04 '23
Also a good example of Russet’s Teapot. If I say there’s a microscopic teapot floating in space between Earth and Mars, the burden is on me to prove it, not for someone else to disprove me. But since it can’t be proven or disproven, we shouldn’t let belief or disbelief in the teapot dictate policy for everyone.
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u/eyeoft Feb 04 '23
The teapot isn't microscopic in thought experiment, it's teapot-size.
Spotting an object the size of a teapot in space is essentially impossible already, so there's no need to make it tiny.
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u/IndependentBad9756 Feb 04 '23
Isn't Meno's Paradox problematic because it's based on the fallacy of equivocation?
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u/MasterMementoMori Feb 04 '23 •
I don’t think so, at least not according to my understanding of those two things.
The fallacy of equivocation is when the same concept or word is applied in two separate contexts but a conclusion is drawn disregarding those different contexts. “A PB&J is better than nothing. Nothing is better than being in love. Therefore a PB&J is better than being in love.” That would be an equivocation fallacy. “Nothing” is being equivocated to mean one thing in the first presupposition and another in the second.
My understanding of Meno’s Paradox is a bit rusty. Meno’s Paradox is a verification of knowledge problem. If you don’t know the capital of Russia, you cannot seek the knowledge in a way where you would be able to know with certainty unless you already know it because if you seek the knowledge and the knowledge you obtain is erroneous how could you know it was erroneous? If I asked you the capital of Russia and you say London how could I know you were wrong? We do have appeals to experts but how do you know they’re right? What if everyone believed in something that was erroneous? So if you apply this to all knowledge then if you already know something you don’t need to seek out the knowledge, but if you don’t know something you cannot seek it, yet we do have knowledge.
The solution to Meno’s paradox is that partial knowledge must exist meaning that you don’t need to know something in its entirety or absolutely before you have some understanding of it. We have different levels of confidence in our knowledge and that’s the solution.
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u/YankeeWalrus Feb 04 '23
“A PB&J is better than nothing. Nothing is better than being in love. Therefore a PB&J is better than being in love.”
Okay, but if you're going to demonstrate a fallacy, you should use an example in which the fallacious line of logic does not present a correct conclusion by accident.
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u/Snakesfeet Feb 04 '23
Yes, that's a correct understanding of Meno's Paradox and the fallacy of equivocation. The paradox raises the question of how we can have knowledge if we don't already know what we're searching for and how we can verify that what we obtain through our search is true. The solution, as you stated, is that partial knowledge exists and we can have different levels of confidence in our knowledge, even if we don't have absolute certainty. This leads to the idea of justified true belief as a way to understand knowledge, where belief is justified by evidence and reasoning, and can be considered knowledge if it is true.
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u/LurkerFailsLurking Feb 04 '23
Just wanted to jump in to say that Meno's Paradox is why the scientific method is so powerful and amazing.
The scientific method doesn't rely on knowing anything to be true. All it says is that you can construct a hypothesis about an observational outcome of an empirical test, and that if those empirical tests can repeatedly produce those observed outcomes, then you can construct new hypothesis about the observational outcomes of other tests. What's critical is that falsifiable hypotheses don't really need to make any claim about what's "true" or what we "know for sure" all we have to say is "we seem to have observed XYZ outcome." And on that basis alone, the entire logistical and technical edifice of modern civilization is built.
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u/GiveToOedipus Feb 04 '23
Yep. This is ultimately why I facepalm anytime someone tries to equate science and the scientific method as a belief system of faith, as if it was no different than any other religion. This is a common false equivalence used by apologists in their arguments against science. Anyone who tries to make this argument immediately reveals just how little they understand what the scientific method is, or just how little they care about having an honest discussion of the topic.
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u/MasterMementoMori Feb 04 '23
Thank you for your response and clarification. I have not talked about this with anyone so it is nice to hear the feedback.
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u/Doritos-Locos-Taco Feb 04 '23
Wow you guys are legitimately cool. Loved reading all of that.
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Feb 04 '23
I don’t know if I know.
But I do know that this webpage explains it all pretty well.
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u/Randy_Muffbuster Feb 04 '23
And just like that a $100,000 Bachelor of Arts degree in philosophy peaked in usefulness.
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u/_30d_ Feb 04 '23
False, this is actually inspired by the "Professor of Logic" joke, best told by the late Norm MacDonald.
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u/LordStoneBalls Feb 04 '23
And where is this brainwashing cult being allowed to speak to kids?
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u/thymeizmoney
Feb 04 '23
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Speaker goes home after convinced he was face to face with Satan himself
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u/InVodkaVeritas Feb 04 '23
Unironically, probably yes.
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u/Tomnnn Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
I've seen a longer version. He stumbles for a second like we see here, mentions the kids name and age, can't think of a good answer, and then accuses a nearby parent or teacher of having him ask that question.
It's funny that even if he was right, he is admitting that it's a question he can't answer
--edit: u/Beerzler found the link : https://youtu.be/HhDPrP-tpeo
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u/Aimin4ya Feb 04 '23
The answer is "belief." Religion has all these tricky ways of getting around knowledge fallacies.
Like: You can't know anything without the all powerful knowledge of god
Kid: But if i don't know anything I can't know god
Answer: FAITH
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u/MFbiFL Feb 04 '23
I’m still salty about the time I went to my friend’s church camp where they blindfolded us and put our hands on a rope that was allegedly tied in a maze shape and told us to find our way out but raise your hand if you couldn’t. Turns out it was a closed loop so there was no exit and the lesson was you have to ask god for help when you can’t see the way or something. As a middle school kid I felt so dumb when I finally raised my hand because nobody else was in the rope maze anymore and they’d all been watching me for a few minutes stubbornly trying to solve this unwinnable game.
The church camp I went to was way more fun. Vague positive “be nice to people” lessons in the morning, sneaking off in the woods with girls to flirt and hold hands, ultimate frisbee in the afternoon, another vague “be nice to people” lesson in the afternoon, terrible camp food, then getting to stay up late around the campfire getting introduced to a bunch old folk and rock music.
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u/ramtax666 Feb 04 '23
Alexander the Great method would have worked perfectly, if you are in an impossible situation cut your way out.
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u/Cerberus_Aus Feb 04 '23
“When your back is up against a wall, break the damn wall down.”
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u/Suspicious_Bicycle Feb 04 '23
So the lesson was: If you take the blindfold off you don't need God?
I don't think they were teaching what they thought they were teaching.
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u/RoyBeer Feb 04 '23
No the lesson was "join our club and watch the others with a smug feeling of eliteness"
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u/artygta1988 Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
And vic versa, they need to blindfold you in order to believe in god.
Edit: Haha I’m not changing it
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u/Aimin4ya Feb 04 '23
I used to be involved in that kind of stuff. Late nights and early mornings make you intellectually groggy and emotionally pliable. Was fun tho
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u/F3NlX Feb 04 '23
My Catholic ex-friends from school went to a camp that made them stay up till 1 am and wake up at 4 am. They had to pray every couple of hours and had only one meal a day, because "god was nourishment enough". Basically a weekend of torture.
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u/Aralith1 Feb 04 '23
I love the implications of this maze game, because it’s basically saying that god purposefully puts you in impossible scenarios to force you to ask for his help and be your savior. God has to trick us into needing him so he can feel useful and powerful was the unintended message of that game.
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u/Jake_D_Dogg Feb 04 '23
Ah man. If only some kid was able to figure out that it was a closed loop and declare it thus, thereby teaching the real lesson which is "you don't need God if you can use rational thought to understand the world and build moral principles"
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u/spicymato Feb 04 '23
-ish. His preceding statement actually had the answer he should have given, but he doesn't know his own material enough to answer: revelation. It's kinda like faith, but more rooted in an experience of, well, having a "truth" revealed to you. It becomes something you "know", not just "believe". Most people of faith that I know haven't had that level of experience, but go through the motions anyway.
It's all still hokey to me, though. I've known people to get that "revelation" sensation from MLMs and conspiracy theories. That "truth" is still unfounded, but they now have a personal emotional responses telling them that it's real.
But who knows? Maybe one of the various deities that people have worshipped throughout history and across geographies will decide to pay my cosmologically insignificant bag of sentient dirt water a visit and deliver the electrochemical computer inside a peek behind the veil, say "It was me, all along!", and fuck off into silence until I run out of fuel or whatever and cease to function. I'm sure that will be super helpful.
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u/NeatNefariousness1 Feb 04 '23
I've known people to get that "revelation" sensation from MLMs and conspiracy theories. That "truth" is still unfounded, but they now have a personal emotional responses telling them that it's real.
Exactly. This sensation is a residue of the way humans are wired. We look for meaning in our experiences to build upon and we'll build it on garbage if there is nothing else that captures our attention.
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u/Pvt_Mozart Feb 04 '23
I went to a huge Youth Group gathering when I was probably 12 in Gatlinburg, TN called Winterfest. Before that I had been really questioning my faith, but by that last day in the weekend we were all really jazzed up for Jesus. One of the very last speakers to the hundreds of us in the convention center came on after a particularly rousing musical act, and asked us, "Do you know kids at your school who don't believe in God? Or don't act the way a Christian is supposed to? I'm going to give you tips on how to reach them and save them." I was basically all, "Fuck yeah I know those kids! Let's save their asses!"
He started asking a series of questions, like, "If God is real, then why is there war and famine?" And I'm like, "Yeah that's a good question?" And his answer was basically, "Duh. Mysterious ways! And faith!" As he went along with these hypothetical questions these non-believers may ask, and gave unsatisfying answer and unsatisfying answer, I felt all that jazz for Jesus slowly start to slip away from my body. The questions seemed legit, but I couldn't reconcile the answers. I even looked around at one point, like, "Are you guys buying this?" But everybody still seemed all wide eyed and totally buying it. I credit that speaker for starting my journey into atheism, because by 16 I was fully secure in my non-belief. I always wonder if anyone else in that crowd had the very same thing happen, because it's hard for me to believe that everyone was just okay with "faith" as an answer for everything. Either way, at least for me, that guy backfired spectacularly.
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u/Aimin4ya Feb 04 '23
Yes yes, children's bone cancer is just a test to make sure we'd rather suffer than alter gods plan /s
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u/Oakfan24 Feb 04 '23
They run in circles with their arguments. It’s why I’m atheist. Not because I’m 100% convinced there is no “higher power”, but because in all the time I’ve been on earth, and the thousands of times I’ve tried asking questions… I have not once received a real, genuinely expressed, thoughtful explanation/reasoning for why it’s more logical than being alone in the universe.
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u/TheBestNick Feb 04 '23
If god loves you as much as you (religious people) claim, then why would he make you jump through hoops & inconvenience you by forcing you into needing blind faith? If he's truly all powerful & omnipotent, the fact that he makes you blindly believe in him makes him an asshole; not the loving god you claim. If in fact he makes you jump through those hoops because he isn't all powerful or omnipotent, then he isn't god.
I don't remember the name of it, but it's the same as one of my favorite philosophical arguments about god. If he was truly omnipotent, he could destroy all evil. The fact that he doesn't means he's either an asshole, not worthy of our worship, or not truly omnipotent, & therefore not god.
Edit: I'm using "you" as directed toward those generally religious, not you, the person I'm replying to.
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u/ArcticPhoenix96 Feb 04 '23
I saw something recently that agrees with what you say about being a TRULY all powerful and omnipotent god but also said “satan (or whatever we’re calling him) really never did anything bad in the Bible. He’s recorded as just offering a choice. Even when he ‘tempted’ Jesus in the desert he basically just said ‘dude you don’t have to do this.’ God on the other hand wants you to ‘have faith’ and when you die you get to worship him for eternity.” Kinda sounds like chains in heaven and freedom in hell to me.
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u/Xeonphire Feb 04 '23
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
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u/Dresden890 Feb 04 '23
"Free will"
As if the existence of free will effects the frequency of tsunamis, volcanoes, earthquakes, tornadoes or those little fish that swim up your dickhole when you pee.
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat Feb 04 '23
also, why would god require "faith" anyway?
It's obvious a religion would require faith, but why would a god would require faith... "faith" is for a religion's benefit, not a god's...
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u/Pockets262 Feb 04 '23
Yep, I started asking questions around 8 or 9 at CCD. That was the end of that.
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u/philosophunc Feb 04 '23
Would've been great if when he accused another adult of telling the child to ask the question someone mentioned something about indoctrination of young impressionable minds.
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u/imSOsalty Feb 04 '23
I asked something similar to this once and I was ignored and they told my parents there was ‘darkness in my heart’
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u/Void_Speaker Feb 04 '23
- push own beliefs
- use intellectual sounding bullshit as "evidence"
- if someone smart questions it, drop the facade of intellectualism to attack their character, revealing deep-rooted anti-intellectualism.
Why does this seem so familiar...
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u/msmyrk Feb 04 '23
Speaker: Sorry Max, how old are you buddy?
Max [in a deep sinister voice]: SIX THOUSAND YEARS!
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u/howroydlsu Feb 04 '23
Ironically, "I don't know any more because I don't know everything so my age can't be true!" Would have also been an amusing answer
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u/ksiit Feb 04 '23
At the very least he believes satan was working through the kid to test him. (I went to an elementary school like that)
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u/DevappaJi Feb 04 '23
These types always seem so quick to steer attention elsewhere when they realize they've been outwitted.
I wonder if they have classes for that or something.
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u/BenjaminaAU Feb 04 '23
It's self-selecting: Either you can pivot every time your dogma is challenged, keeping your cognitive dissonance alive, or you lose motivation and go do something else with your life.
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u/rygqy Feb 04 '23
whats a dogma
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u/Cousimsallybrown Feb 04 '23
a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
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u/AbyssStone Feb 04 '23
That is this dudes whole strategy. He teaches people to follow a script, a presuppositionalist script, where they question your philosophical foundation, but wont allow you to question theirs because apparently their belief in God fixes all philosophical problems.
He does this because when he tried to debate anything, from christianity to evolution, he lost since he doesnt know anything. So to him this is an easy "win" where he can just pronounce everything you know as doubtful.
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u/Hungboy6969420 Feb 04 '23
And he targets kids cause it's easier than adults
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u/Legendary_Bibo Feb 04 '23
Still fucking lost though so he resorted to asking the kid's age like that's at all relevant.
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u/ayyycab Feb 04 '23
- Be an idiot
- Get stumped by a kid
3a. “I’ll pray for you”
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u/KHearts77 Feb 04 '23
Why do adults always think they're smarter than children?
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u/ArgusTheCat Feb 04 '23
Because when they were kids, they listened to morons like this dude tell them things about faith, and nodded instead of asking questions.
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u/Wendellwasgod Feb 04 '23
I remember in high school, we had a conservative teacher. He said “human beings are the only species to practice homosexuality(which isn’t even true), therefore it is deviant and wrong”
I raised my hand. He called on me. I said “human beings are the only species to practice religion, therefore it’s deviant and wrong”
His only reply was “no, you can’t do that”
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u/InVodkaVeritas Feb 04 '23 •
For the record, homosexuality has been found in over 350 species with the gayest animal being the Giraffe.
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u/zhode Feb 04 '23
Making homesexuality a non-deviant behavior, though religion is still up in the air.
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u/Poincare_Confection Feb 04 '23
Now I got this image in my head of a giraffe with one of those scarfs that gay people are often seen wearing. You know what I'm talking about. I know you all do.
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u/TemetNosce85 Feb 04 '23
The real question is, would it be wearing it up high on its neck, or down low near its chest?
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u/Alucard_Emordnilap Feb 04 '23
What kinda gay giraffe is going to wear it up high the neck? Obviously the more stylish way is down low while thrown over the shoulder fiercely as it sashays away!
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u/NopeNotReallyMan Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Furries have already determined it's the whole neck anyways
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u/TemetNosce85 Feb 04 '23
I grew the biggest smile ever after my homophobic aunt bought a male dog to breed and it only ever had sex with the male dogs. Pretty sure she got rid of him because of that, too.
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u/SumRWanker41 Feb 04 '23
Only species to fly to space.
Only species to do long division.
Only species that creates religions, infiltrates them, and then uses their position of power to fuck little boys..
I will never forget that time I refused to do RE class at school, and instead wrote pages and pages on why religion was fairytales for adults that needs to stop. And the teacher read it all back to my mum on the phone, and my mum laughed and asked if I could just do some more useful lesson instead (the answer was no)..
But after that, my teacher just left me alone to flunk the class.
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u/FlattLinere Feb 04 '23
Teacher really went; "No this isn't how you're supposed to play the game!"'
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u/Ijjergom Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Ohh. This is Eric Hovind, son of Kent Hovind. Both creationists beliving that the whole universe is just 6000 years old. They also have a creationist related theme park with a giant Noah's Ark that cannot float.
EDIT: My bad! I forgot that the person behinde the Ark Encounter idea is Ken Ham, not Kent. What is funny the people who made the Ark to prove that Noah realy did and and blah blah discredited Kent for using old arguments. As if they are not using same old arguments just with better presentation.
So the ark in Ken Ham(go check Paulogia videos) and Kent is kinda "outsider" from bigger creationist movement.
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u/Vinon Feb 04 '23
The noah boat building is Ken Hams. Kunt Hovind is the one with the dinosaur park.
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u/DremDosh-Nld Feb 04 '23
And wasn't he incarcerated for tax fraud?
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u/T1pple Feb 04 '23
Yes, and he had a kid die on his property by drowning in a lake. Unsupervised.
He also has had people say he was grooming their children.
He also beat the shit out of his last "wife" (dude doesn't get married in the eyes of the law)
This is all Kent, not Eric.
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u/theImplication69 Feb 04 '23
ya Eric is dumb af but he is MUCH MUCH MUCH nicer and more intellectually honest than his dad - which is like the lowest bar possible
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u/hamburgler1984 Feb 04 '23
I'm guessing this guy gets stumped by quite a few things in life... The existence of knowledge, where he left his car keys, how to tie his shoes...
Hopefully the act of reproduction also stumps him.
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u/Pengin_Master Feb 04 '23
He sounds like the kinda guy who loses his car keys, searches for a total of 30 seconds, then prays to God to help him find them. And when he does find them (right where he leaves them normally), it's some big miracle that proves his All Powerful God is true and cares about people (minor blessings and all that)
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u/NinjaGrizzlyBear Feb 04 '23
I'm an engineer and some days it feels like I know nothing...lol
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u/Ghstfce Feb 04 '23
Also an engineer, but digital video. It's called imposter syndrome. We know we know our shit, but we're smart enough to question ourselves and our abilities. The moment you feel you know everything, is the moment you admit you know nothing.
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u/NinjaGrizzlyBear Feb 04 '23
Yeah I'm a process and petroleum engineer and I'm like reading codes religiously cause I'm like oh shit I might blow somebody up so I better double check the double check I double checked 24 checks ago.
I'm also a project manager so I'm good with people and explaining technical to non-technical crowds...sometimes during multidisciplinary stakeholder meetings I'll give my explanation and then get random questions from finance or construction or whatever that make me wonder if what I just told them that I believe is correct is actually correct because they are questioning if I'm indeed correct.
It makes my brain hurt sometimes lol.
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u/Ghstfce Feb 04 '23
Much respect. But the ability to translate from our related fields to plain English requires understanding. While my imposter syndrome didn't stop, it went down quite a bit when my daughter asked how we get TV in our homes. I explained the entire process to her in ways she could understand and it made me feel so much better.
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u/NinjaGrizzlyBear Feb 04 '23
Well I'm guessing your daughter is basically your CEO in life so you better be damn certain you can explain why the rate of return of Paw Patrol is directly related to the output of your TV accordingly.
(Sorry I dunno if she's a little kid or whatever...my friends kids are all watching that show haha).
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u/Ghstfce Feb 04 '23
Mine's 7 now, so she's past that. But she asks much harder questions than my senior leadership, I'll tell you that! Plus only half the time is she satisfied with my answers. I'd take my SLT over my kid every time explaining things, much easier crowd to please.
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u/NinjaGrizzlyBear Feb 04 '23
Hey man are least she is curious and intelligent. Sounds like you're raising a future engineer!
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u/Ghstfce Feb 04 '23
She loves science/math and I've tried to teach her one new thing about the exciting world around her every day. It worked for my nephew, who just graduated high school and is attending his first year in college for engineering. So who knows, you might be right! We need more women in STEM fields!
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u/PsyOpBunnyHop Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Right where the video cuts, when he asks the kid's age, sure looks like he's about to use the age as a reason to put the kid down indirectly, kinda like an ad hominem. His shift of focus and that lead-in question is so fucking obvious, I've seen it hundreds of times. That jackass is a cunt for trying to bully kids into accepting religious doctrine. Pretty sure we call that grooming.
Edit: It seems necessary to let people know that he continues to be dismissive and talk over top of people, and eventually uses the kid's age as an excuse for a backhanded compliment. He also tries to suggest that this kid's father would disagree with the kid's point, which the father does not as explained in the clip added the end of the longer video.
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u/PangaeanSunrise Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Sounds about right. And their shit-eating grins makes my blood boil. Fuck, this little runt isn’t someone we can prey on. Quick - talk about something else!
Kudos to that kid, it seems like he has more logic and reasoning skills than 99.9% of the adults in that room.
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u/Alwaysunder_thegun Feb 04 '23
I was asked to leave sunday school when I was 5 because I asked to many questions. I guess they didn't want it catching on.
I wasn't trying to be difficult. I genuinely wanted to know things. Like how do they know there wasn't a back way out of the cave?
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u/GiveToOedipus Feb 04 '23
I got made fun of when I was 8 or 10 and because I kept asking questions about why things like dinosaurs weren't in Genesis. (I was big into dinosaurs and thought I wanted to be a paleontologist at that age) it's ultimately the moment I realized I didn't actually believe in any of that crap and saw the indoctrination for what it was. I remember being forced to watch these god awful videos on bible school trips trying to claim carbon dating was a lie and that fossils were wrong, etc. Young earth creationism bullshit. Ugh, I hated Sunday school crap.
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u/imdefsomebody Feb 04 '23
Woah, I didn’t know that they go this extent.
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u/djublonskopf Feb 04 '23
Lots of American churches do. Mine did. I was told I had to choose between science or heaven when I was like 7, which turned a budding would-be paleontologist into an insufferable young-earth creationist with serious denial for about 20 years.
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u/imdefsomebody Feb 04 '23
Shit, that’s so messed up. I’d imagine at least your parents supported you. Sorry, man.
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u/djublonskopf Feb 04 '23
My parents both claim it didn’t happen and also that the earth is 6,000 years old and also that college turns people against their parents and God and that they regret letting me go.
EDIT: That said, I’ve been having fun catching up on 20 years of missed scientific discoveries of late!
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u/newsflashjackass Feb 04 '23
A choice between dinosaurs and Jesus is no choice at all.
I ain't never heard of no Jesus fossil.
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u/Sithpawn Feb 04 '23
There is a pastor in my extended family that straight up accuses anyone (including scientists) who believes in either evolution or climate change of be being "uneducated."
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u/hellostarsailor Feb 04 '23
Let’s talk about the weirdos on the left. All five of them.
Ooh missed the weirdo right next to the speaker.
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u/amcarls Feb 04 '23
He couldn't help it. That was young earth creationist Kent Hovind's son Eric. They're both idiots but his father is at least a bit slicker. Eric got his start while his dad "Dr" Kent Hovind (the doctorate is of course phony) was doing a 10-year stint in the pen. This was him trying to fill in for his father back in 2012.
If you ever need material for a class on critical thinking they both pretty much break all the rules/fallacies constantly.
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u/See_Bee10 Feb 04 '23
The stint was for domestic abuse iirc, so yeah little Eric probably didn't have a great home life.
Eric is a doofus, but Kent is a real piece of work.
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u/InvalidUserNemo Feb 04 '23
No, no, no. Grooming is when, instead of banning books you actually read them to children, in a library of all evil places. Allowing religious leaders to have unfettered and unsupervised access to children in places of worship where the children are actually raped is just gold ol’ fashion religion!
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u/GrandSquanchRum Feb 04 '23
Is this a school? What's this chuckle fuck doing there trying to indoctrinate kids?
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u/middleagethreat Feb 04 '23
From the people who brought you, “God is real because the Bible says so, and the Bible is always right because God wrote it.”
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u/Local_Working2037 Feb 04 '23
Owned by a kid. And he looks around for help from the other adults.
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u/ConnorK12 Feb 04 '23
As Ricky Gervais once said.
“If god is in everything…. Is he up my arse?”
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u/PhoenixHabanero Feb 04 '23
He also once said that if we were to destroy all science literature and religion literature, science would all come back the same but you can't say the same about religion literature.
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u/Eliteguard999 Feb 04 '23
Do these people realize how insane they sound?
"I don't know everything, but my imaginary best friend does, and he told me that I was right."
Like wtf, that's toddler levels of reasoning.
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u/real_kerim Feb 04 '23
that's toddler levels of reasoning.
Which might be the reason why it got so easily dismantled by an elementary schooler lol
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u/ianyboo Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
If you talk to them long enough (which you should never do) you will almost always discover that it all comes back to a fear of hell/dying. They are so terrified of what happens to them after they die that they will twist themselves into mental knots just to give the outward impression that they believe their god exists and will save them from hell/non-existence.
But they don't really believe, it's just an act. Deep down, and I mean REALLY deep down they KNOW it's all bs. This becomes obvious when you go to a funeral and they act EXACTLY like all the other folks who understand that death is final and not just the first step to the next great adventure.
If they truly thought that then funerals would be completely different affairs.
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u/Becalm443 Feb 04 '23
I love it when Christians try to explain why and how they believe in their specific version of God. It always comes back to faith in an unknown. But if it is unknown, how can they say that every other belief is wrong? Makes zero sense.
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u/InVodkaVeritas Feb 04 '23
That's why I appreciate the Episcopalian mindset of "This is what we believe and why we believe it, but we are flawed humans just like you so while we believe we're right we won't condemn anyone who disagrees."
Sadly America is filled with Evangelical Authoritarian Protestants.
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u/Becalm443 Feb 04 '23
I grew up in Episcopal churches. While I do appreciate that they are slightly less judgmental than most other Christian sects, I still couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that unless one accepts Jesus as the only Lord and Savior, you are going to hell.
As a kid, I remember thinking, "Geez, that sucks for everyone in the world who doesn't believe this way." Seemed pretty unfair to assume that Christianity was the only "right" religion, and everyone else was doomed.
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u/PoisonTheOgres Feb 04 '23
There's this long-winded joke about a guy meeting someone who is about to jump off a bridge, and he tells him not to do it because there's so much to live for, like religion. So he asks his religion, "christian, oh, me too!" Asks if he's protestant or catholic, "protestant, oh me too" This goes on for about 20 subcategories, they are all the same until the last one. He's western Minnesotan orthodox anabaptist instead of eastern Minnesotan orthodox anabaptist or whatever, so the guy says "you're going to hell, sinner" and pushes him off the bridge.
Just to show how silly it all is.
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u/ZootOfCastleAnthrax Feb 04 '23
The People's Front of Judea, not the Judean People's Front. Splitter!
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u/mozgw4 Feb 04 '23
I always thought it seemed very unfair on the countless millions who had lived & died before Jesus had his day. Sorry, you were too early, burn in hell!
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u/northforthesummer Feb 04 '23
Watching this chucklefuck get stumbled up by such an obvious logical fallacy, presented by a child, is a thing of beauty. Fuck these mindless diety worshipping Muppets. Go back to your basement and leave these kids alone!
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u/Dormage Feb 04 '23
Fuck whoever put that music in the background.
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u/GuruBushHippie Feb 04 '23
To quote Hank Hill, “You’re not making Christianity better you’re just making rock worse.”
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u/thunderingparcel Feb 04 '23
This guy thinks that talking loudly helps people believe him
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u/_reddit_account Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
How old are you buddy is a try of diminishing his arguments which is lame and infuriating comment
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Feb 04 '23
Immediately goes to "how old are you buddy" which is a subtle way of saying "you're too young to understand my delusions."
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u/KeFF98 Feb 04 '23
You can see the little smirk he does at 0:18 slowly fading away as the kid asks his question
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u/sticky2955 Feb 04 '23
The classic trick of bringing up someone’s age instead of confronting their argument. Works like a charm
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u/CodeyFox Feb 04 '23
Indoctrination is less effective on smart kids, and when those smart kids are allowed to ask questions in a public setting, it protects the rest from indoctrination as well. Why do you think religious schools are known for being so strict with etiquette and punishment?
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u/younggundc Feb 04 '23
Trying to say we can’t know we exist because god hasn’t told us is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in awhile, and pretty much proof the guy has never left his small town in Iowa.
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u/Jesseofpv530 Feb 04 '23
These are the ppl who think they can outsmart and overthrow the US government?
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u/The_Queef_of_England Feb 04 '23
We had a reverend come to school every Wednesday to read the bible for an hour. God, it was soooooooooo boring. I remember asking him once how there's such a place as hell if god forgives everything and he said he'd check and get back to me next week, but that was 30 years ago and he never did. He's dead now. He was actually a really lovely man, but damn his lessons were dull.
I also remember treating the bible like a lateral thinking puzzle. So there's one story where Jesus dies, gets put in a cave, and a boulder gets pushed into the entrance, and then he reanimates 3 days later. I remember explaining to the reverend that what might have happened was this: he wasn't dead when they put him in the cave, just seriously injured. 2000 years ago, they didn't have the medical instruments to check vital signs, so that makes sense. So he woke up in the cave, but there was nothing to eat, but he found mould on the wall and ate that, which happened to be penicillin, so it healed him. There were probably some boulders in the cave too, which he used for weight lifting to get strong enough to push the big boulder out of the enterance and get out. Thus appearing to have come to life again. I think the dude just looked at me like I was waffling absolute nonsense, which I was, but I was only 9 or 10 at the time. It's actually my dad's fault for giving me lateral thinking puzzle books (which I loved, thank-you!).
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u/helgihermadur Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
His argument is so dumb that a little kid can poke holes in it. It's like this guy read a book on epistemology but didn't understand it.
Yes, you can't ever be sure that anything you know is true. But saying that God is the only thing you can believe in is the dumbest possible conclusion.
EDIT: Epistemology, not etymology
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