r/antiwork Sep 24 '22 Socialist Rose 1 Silver 2 Helpful 3 Wholesome 3 Bravo! 1 Lawyer Up 1

Software company I work for announced an in-office mandate effective immediately without asking workers their opinions. I replied to a pro-remote work article someone posted and now have to talk to HR, the COO, and my boss on Monday

[deleted]

38.4k Upvotes

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u/lasting_ephemerae Sep 24 '22 Gold I'll Drink to That Bless Up (Pro)

Seems like you're being invited to show disrespect... Come prepared to roast them and then say, "But that's what the invitation said we were doing!"

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

I'm going to prepare for this meeting so hard.

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u/Reverend_Lazerface Sep 24 '22 Silver Gold Wholesome

Alternate idea: fake confusion about who the "me" refers to, go in there and thank them for having the humility to call a meeting to apologize for disrespecting you and the rest of the company for not asking about the in person work requirement before implementing it.

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u/Local_Signature5325 Sep 25 '22

Brilliant 😂

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u/lostcauz707 Sep 25 '22

Yea, came here to say this. It's pretty much how I would read that. "Oh, you disrespected our time, work and lifestyles around work and all those in the company who should have a say? Thanks for the meeting to apologize to us and choosing me as the representative to do so."

Go in with that attitude and never drop it the whole time.

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u/WokePrimate Sep 24 '22

Take graphs and pie charts. Watch their faces.

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u/modo0419 Sep 24 '22

Pie chart: Blue: ways you guys suck Red: ways you guys suck, in a different color Yellow: positive things you guys do (with no yellow on the chart)

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u/CaliFezzik Sep 24 '22

If one-party recording is legal in your state, then I’d record it. If nothing else, for shits and giggles.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Oh GOOD call. It is legal and I will absolutely plan on recording

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u/Internal-Stable-9162 Sep 24 '22 Wholesome

I’d give the recording a dry run before the meeting to make sure it picks up voices at distances and isn’t too muffled. Best of luck!

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u/ososalsosal Sep 25 '22

This guy 1-parties

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u/kacey- Sep 24 '22 Take My Energy

Im saving this post to return on Tuesday. Would love to know what happens

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

I'll update yall for sure

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u/bronzebow Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 25 '22 Helpful

!RemindMe 4 days

edit: my poor inbox :D

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u/userfakesuper Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Thank you! Dont forget to record and every time they say something, start writing notes. Make like you are a psychologist!. Ask them to repeat what they said a couple times.. even if you heard it correctly. Ask them why the employees were disrespected by not asking their opinions on the back to the office order. Ask HR why it is that they are never on the employees side? Smile. A lot! haha so much fun to be had here.

Ask for a raise before anything is said. hehe Ask if you are getting paid for this meeting and if they say no, walk out, turn and smile and gently close the door behind you. Wait 5 seconds then open the door again, stick your head in and smile again. Gently close the door again and then go home for a nice brunch.

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u/TheGoodDoctorGonzo Sep 24 '22

Be sure to ask them severe times “how does this make you feel?”

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u/fohpo02 Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Post it to Reddit, let someone meme edit it, then post it to the same article you were previous discussing.

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u/bozosonthebus Sep 24 '22

Screw the secret recording. Put your device right on the desk and inform HR that everything is being recorded. For “their protection“ of course

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u/candle9 Sep 24 '22

In a rough negotiation meeting, I put a recording device in the middle of the table. I turned it on with a loud click and pointed it out, saying the meeting was being recorded and participants who stayed were agreeing to be recorded. Set the tone for a very successful outcome against more powerful and ruthless antagonists.

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u/derbarkbark Sep 24 '22

I recommend a PowerPoint. Ur gonna be so much more prepared than them they literally won't know what to do.

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u/zeenzee Sep 24 '22

Power move

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u/HaoshokuArmor Sep 24 '22 Silver

Power-point move. You know, to make a powerful point.

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u/BallFlavin Sep 24 '22

Holy shit, do you think that's why they call it that?

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u/fletch3555 Sep 24 '22

ahem may I speak?

Yes of course.

Thank you stands up and dims lights for the next 3 hours, I will be presenting...

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u/Ainulindala Sep 24 '22

Better yet a full-size poster presentation

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u/operababe Sep 24 '22

Do prepare, because if that’s the legitimate meeting invite title you are dealing with the idiot farm.

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u/MarilynMonheaux Sep 24 '22

An idiot farm with a psychotic scarecrow.

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u/carpathian_crow Sep 24 '22

“Your mothers are disappointed and your wives are unfulfilled.”

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u/thatwasacrapname123 Sep 24 '22

"Lately, a lot of people have been pointing the finger at Mark.. mostly just lesbians telling their barber how they want their hair cut..." (remember at a roast it's ok to be really offensive)

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u/Isteppedinpoopy Sep 24 '22

Schedule something for 2pm with the subject “Disrespect to me and other employees”

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Lmao invite the entire company

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u/rdickeyvii Sep 24 '22

Go out of your way to say it's zoom only, "as that's the most productive way to conduct a meeting in this new normal where everyone works best from home"

Seriously this is yet another example of how it's not about doing what's best for the company, customers, or employees. It's about them exerting their control, entitlement, and sense of superiority over you. I really hope you bring them down a peg or three.

Edit: invite everyone except for who you expect to try to browbeat you in the 3pm meeting.

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u/Bullen-Noxen Sep 24 '22

“ It's about them exerting their control, entitlement, and sense of superiority over you. I really hope you bring them down a peg or three. “

(P.s.: I don’t know the things you put at the start & end of a quote in this format in order to give it that “quote” look. If anyone knows, kindly reply with the method.)

This is exactly what is going on with op. It is also what is fundamentally wrong with work environments. It’s bad character, persona, of people, to which no other person(s), or company procedures, prevent, and/or fix, said behaviors of such people, in such work environments.

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u/chinkostu Sep 24 '22 Silver

To quote, use a > symbol at the start of the line to get

This

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

[deleted]

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u/Kitalahara Sep 24 '22

Spunds like this is a time for the old accidental reply all company line.

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u/BikerJedi *THIS* close to retirement Sep 24 '22

It would be a total power move for sure.

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u/IronManTim Sep 24 '22

An invitation to disrespect the boss and the company? I'm smashing accept.

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u/Beep_Boop_Zeep_Zorp Sep 24 '22

Or you could decline the invite...

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

LMAO should I

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u/nate_oh84 here for the memes Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22 Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

Respond “maybe” and watch them flip shit.

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u/ReferenceAny4836 Sep 24 '22

Now there's the real power move.

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u/boygirlmama Sep 24 '22

I have actually done this when I knew my boss and his boss wanted to talk to me about something. I got a separate email asking if there was a reason I wasn’t sure I was available. 😂

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u/Bradcopter Sep 25 '22

My last boss I would always say "maybe" to his meeting invites. But he knew I was just being silly, and would always send a followup email that just said "jerk."

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u/Ingolin Sep 25 '22

“My cult leader has predicted the apocalypse on Monday, so I am unsure whether I’ll be able to there on Tuesday.”

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u/pabmendez Sep 24 '22

Or ask to do the meeting remote over zoom

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u/chaiguy Sep 24 '22

OMG THIS! - Or tell them you can't because you'll be working from home that day.

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u/Pigmy Sep 24 '22

Lol ask em for the zoom/teams link for the meeting.

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u/stompadillo Sep 24 '22

30 min meeting with HR. Might be an exit interview anyways.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Yeah that's what I'm mentally preparing for. It would be insane since there's no evidence whatsoever of disrespect but they're so far up their asses they'll see whatever they want to see

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u/chaiguy Sep 24 '22

They're going to use that 30 minutes to convince you that it's in your best interests to resign. It's not. Don't resign. Don't let them trick you into thinking that "if you do X it means you've resigned" It does NOT. The only time you've resigned is if you quit or abandon the job. Keep doing your work exactly the same way you've always done it. Keep logging in, keep calling co-workers, clocking in, filing reports, whatever. Make them fire you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

[deleted]

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u/EqualLong143 Sep 24 '22

Then respond “if you bad mouth me, i will sue.”

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u/twinklestein Sep 24 '22

Wait what?

Ok so I have a question. My last boss “accepted my resignation” when I very clearly and explicitly stated that I was not quitting. I was literally just asking for health accommodations due to my high risk pregnancy (which was just to get a specific style of mask…)

I have it in both text and email…. I reported him to my state’s labor office but I don’t know if anything came of that.

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u/chaiguy Sep 24 '22

Yeah, so here's the thing, companies want you to quit, because if you quit, you (generally) can't file an unemployment claim, and you also can't sue or file a wrongful termination claim, like say for failing to provide appropriate accommodation for a pregnant person.

The mistake you made was just walking away. I would have advised you to just continue coming into work and NOT doing whatever you felt impeded by due to your pregnancy and of course, retain counsel who could guide you through the legal process.

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u/theyellowpants Sep 24 '22

Ask them to provide evidence to you in writing

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u/Benz0nHubcaps Sep 24 '22

Have that phone on record homie.

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u/Beep_Boop_Zeep_Zorp Sep 24 '22

If you want to walk out of there it would be a fucking power move.

Probably not if you want a job on Monday.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

My fiance told me he fully supports if I make all my points then quit at that meeting. We will see..

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u/chaiguy Sep 24 '22 Gold

Don't ever quit, they WANT you to quit, make them fire you and collect unemployment while you look for a job.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Hell yes

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u/Lucky12912 Sep 24 '22

Check if you are a one party consent state and record the meeting just in case they try to “fire” you for unrelated reasons to keep you from unemployment ☺️

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u/kebeckistan Sep 24 '22

They'll probably fire them for being "disrespectful" and try to do it with cause. Very important OP keeps their cool during the meeting. They're probably not the only one recording.

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u/xeonicus Sep 24 '22

Yeah, HR is very sneaky about that sort of thing. They exist to dig up any trace of dirt on you for the company to use against you. If you've ever been late 5 minutes, missed a project deadline, had a customer complaint, it will be used to justify your poor performance.

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u/CMDR_KingErvin Sep 24 '22

Yea listen to them. Let them fire you and collect unemployment.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 25 '22 All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Starry

This. DO NOT QUIT OP. Let them fire you, collect unemployment. If they try to deny unemployment, take them to court. Any normal judge will laugh them straight out of the courtroom and the labor board may even hit them with a fine.

ETA- Federal law protects you when talking about working conditions with coworkers. Most people think it only protects you when talking about pay, but it’s about any work related conditions, up to and including pay. Your company trying to stifle this is illegal.

EDIT- OMG. My first award!! Thank you so much! Much appreciated! 🙏🏼💜💜💜

EDIT- More awards! Thank you!! I appreciate y’all! 💜

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u/AnusGerbil Sep 24 '22 Silver Wholesome Take My Energy

OP is this the point here. You always need to find a legally protected box to fit in and this is a good one. "It sounds like you called this meeting because I was discussing my working conditions with my colleagues." And record the conversation.

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u/Beep_Boop_Zeep_Zorp Sep 24 '22

Sounds like you got a good one there. Congratulations!

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

He's the shit

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u/n64bomb Sep 24 '22

Make them fire you.

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u/Bossman01 Sep 24 '22

Agreed, make them fire you

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u/Beep_Boop_Zeep_Zorp Sep 24 '22

If you can quit without worrying about burning bridges, have fun with it. I hope you can do that. I want nice things for you.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Thank you, I want nice things for you as well. I don't want to burn bridges or give anyone a reason to be upset with me. So far, HR looks like a fool here and my aim is to keep it that way

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u/Meltrox0 Sep 24 '22 Silver

Sometimes you gotta burn them old shitty wooden bridges to build better, more stable bridges that are nonflammable.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

You. I like you.

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u/Nonax92 Sep 24 '22

I have burned a few bridges in my 7 year career, no point in keeping a shitty bridge that may some day break while you are driving across it.

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u/tuba_man Sep 24 '22

15 years in tech, burned a couple bridges myself. And by that I mean I stopped putting out the fires others were lighting on said bridges.

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u/holyhibachi Sep 24 '22

I'll say this, my friend.

I worked for a company and hated my life and all of management. I quit, didn't burn bridges, and then got laid off from new job. I returned to old job which now has better management and got promoted and am loving almost every day.

I can't tell you what to do, but I don't believe in burning bridges anymore.

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u/spaceguitar Sep 24 '22

Don’t quit. Force them to fire you. Be vigilant in your talking points and say something like, “and that’s why I won’t be a part of returning to the office. You will see my work remotely” and make the statement final. If they fire you… sweet, sweet unemployment. 😂 Makes finding a new job far easier.

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u/chubbysumo Sep 24 '22

they are fundamentally changing the aspects of the job, either they accept workers work remote, or they fire them.

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u/Zalenka Sep 24 '22

Let them fire you, get severance if they care or unemployment if they don't.

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u/h4ppic4t Sep 24 '22

They’ll have to schedule another appointment to discipline OP 🤣

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u/Eledridan Sep 24 '22

Decline that one too. They’ll never be able to contact you to fire you.

Employers hate him! Learn how to never get fired with this one trick!

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u/andoesq Sep 24 '22

Walk out? The power move is to request the zoom link!

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u/TechDante Sep 24 '22 Wholesome Seal of Approval

Decline stating it conflicts with your commute time.

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u/Givn_to_fly Sep 24 '22

Don’t decline it, keep rescheduling it until you find a new job. Never let them Know your next move!!!!

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u/fohpo02 Sep 24 '22

Reschedule it to be remote from home

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u/Gadzooks0megon Sep 24 '22

CLICK "MAYBE" FROFL

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u/Savior1301 Sep 24 '22

I did this to HR at a place I work once when they were pestering me about a doctors note for some sick time I took...I just declined w/e they sent me and didnt engage with them any further, and I never heard a thing about it. Turns out HR is pretty toothless when youre the only person at your company that can perform your role.

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u/tightiewhitieboy Sep 24 '22

Did the exact thing. They just went away! Poof! LoL

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u/NekoIan at work Sep 24 '22

I'd want to open with "You do know the title of this meeting makes you look small and insecure?"

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

I'm going to find a way to turn that into professional speak for sure

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u/CrashTestDumby1984 Sep 24 '22 Silver Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

As I’m sure you didn’t intend, the title of the meeting implies a very hostile and somewhat unprofessional tone. I would be truly shocked that someone at your level of the company would at all feel threatened by my behavior or in anyway intentionally engage in something so blatantly unprofessional. I can only assume you may be experiencing burnout, in which case I would recommend taking advantage of our “amazing” company benefits to connect with a therapist so they can help address the root cause of these issues.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Holy shit this is amazing. Stealing this

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u/StraightSchwifty Sep 24 '22

change therapist to "resources" and reword that last bit if you want to make it a tad less hostile to close. You should totally do this though if you are at that point in your decision making/emotions for this place.

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u/xtrevorx Sep 24 '22

Also work in a "you Do know the title of this meeting is public to other attendees?" too

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u/operababe Sep 24 '22

OP - Do you know what happened to the actual article poster?

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

He's in the same meeting as me

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u/operababe Sep 24 '22

Oh boy!

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Double firing?

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u/operababe Sep 24 '22

I mean, I don’t want to add to any anxieties you may have about this meeting, but it is weird that they are lumping you two in the same meeting.

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u/xtratrestrial Sep 24 '22

I feel like if they were firing they'd seperate them to make them feel weaker with the 3 on 1.

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u/Argon717 Sep 24 '22

Reminder that two people working together to improve working conditions may be considered protected concerted activity in the US.

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity

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u/sherrib99 Sep 24 '22

Take some pizza with you, sounds like this management team needs an atta boy pizza party Pat on the back

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u/Mehfisto666 Sep 24 '22

Ahahah that would be awesome showing up at the meeting with a few pizzas and a party hat. Kicking in the door saying "this sounded like fun so I brought pizza!"

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u/6stringNate Sep 24 '22

Get your whole team to comment on the article too.

Can't fire you all.

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u/andros_vanguard Sep 24 '22

Impromptu group project.

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u/Distinct_Number_7844 Sep 24 '22

It's like crowd sourcing a professional FU lol

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u/jackfreeman Sep 24 '22

Now that is a subreddit that deserves to exist

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u/PsychologicalAct6200 Sep 24 '22

When someone is angry at you for ridiculous reasons, responding with bemused curiosity is the best way.

They are mad, but because they're emotionally stunted and insecure, they're unable to parse their feelings. Their way of coping is to attempt the transfer those feelings of anger and insecurity onto you, by trying to get you to feel the same way as them. This validates their feelings by way of mirroring.

If you don't get angry and insecure, it's like a short-circuit went off in their brain, and it's amazing to watch. Anytime I deal with another engineer and their massive ego, simply asking questions with a tone/attitude of bemused curiosity is like watching a robot get input that's undefined behavior.

The end result is that the ignoramus on the other end of the conversation becomes so enraged that they do/say something incredibly stupid, which makes them look bad, or they don't know how to react and start fuddling around, which has the same result.

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u/spageddy_lee Sep 24 '22

This is great, only thing I don't like is "somewhat unprofessional" and "blatantly unprofessional" in the same statement. Change up that wording and golden.

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u/KatiaHailstorm Sep 24 '22

Take out "somewhat unprofessional" and leave it as simply "unprofessional". Bc this behavior isn't somewhat, this is unacceptable.

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u/GingerMau Sep 24 '22

You didn't even post the article, right?

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Nope, just replied to it.

My response was:

"Good share, (coworker). There are a lot of really good points in there that they backed up with extensive data from interviews.

"The most successful companies are the ones that are backing off demands that workers be in the office a certain percentage of the work week. Instead, they create times of the week where workers have the opportunity to be with each other—and strongly urge everyone to be there at that time, while acknowledging the sacrifice that will require" stood out to me among others"

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u/gimpygoat498 Sep 24 '22 Take My Energy

They are pulling you in this meeting to stifle all dissent. They were already prepared to receive negative feedback for this mandate. They already had talked amongst themselves before announcing the mandate and “at the first sign of dissent we need to shut them up” you have already told your other coworkers about this meeting? So your other coworkers are now scared to speak up. Bet you a burrito you still will have a job at the conclusion of this meeting. You are the sacrificial lamb only they have no intentions of sacrificing you, just getting you back in line and to be a good drone

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u/fastdog00 Sep 24 '22

Yep, just had a meeting like that this week myself. Boss says I’m good at my job but doesn’t like my strong opinions, so either conform or find new job.

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u/ThePhantomCreep Sep 24 '22

The magic word is "passion" as in "Yes, I am passionate about my job and the work I do here. Do you want me to just punch the clock and phone it in, or do you want me performing at a high level and bringing my best self to what we do?"

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u/Liveman215 Sep 24 '22

My old company tried this in March. Their IT help wanted section on the website is now up to 4 pages long!

Sucks to suck 🤷‍♂️

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u/swordofra Sep 24 '22

I fail to see how this was disrespectful.

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u/JollyJoker3 Sep 24 '22

Respecting someone as a person vs as an authority. I'm sure you've seen the "If you won't respect me as an authority, I won't respect you as a person" thing posted. This is essentially saying that any disagreement is disrespecting their authority.

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u/doctormalbec Sep 24 '22

Yep. This is a narcissist’s tool. Using the word respect to mean obedience. That’s not what respect means.

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u/ParkSidePat Sep 24 '22

Slavemaster mentality found in authoritarian managers and jack booted thugs in police uniforms.

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u/Pedrov80 Sep 24 '22

Not even part of the petite bourgeois, you don't own this factory, we should want the same thing.

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u/cumaboardladies Sep 24 '22

Wtf! I love work from home but if my work had scheduled times where workers could be with one another I’d take that up at least a few times for major projects, beginning of quarter, etc. I’m sorry your company is taking the hard line in the sand approach. I’ll never understand it.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Same! A lot of us would be ok going into the office but we're reeling from being told with no notice. And no better reason other than "this is our culture."

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u/LaGranGata Sep 24 '22

The best part about culture is you can change it if it's a bad one. Smoking indoors used to be part of office culture too.

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u/zorrowhip Sep 24 '22

Is this what is riling them up? Holy shit. I wouldn't spend a day in a company like this.

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u/RavenSkies777 idle Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

It’s telling on themselves as an org; it pisses them off that OP pushed the ‘independent thought alarm’

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u/weathergleam Sep 24 '22

which part of that comment is disrespectful? i’d ask them to clarify since in my read it’s quite respectful and even helpful

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

I plan on asking that in the meeting

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u/ColdSnickersBar Sep 24 '22

“Can you point to the spot on the doll where my comment hurt you?”

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u/JollyJoker3 Sep 24 '22

Not accepting their orders without complaint is disrespecting their authority. Very different from disrespecting a person.

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u/Teepseyipey Sep 24 '22

I think there's a lot of opportunity for concern trolling here.

The reason you sent the article of course, was because you were concerned about the future of the company and its ability to retain talented employees. Something like that.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Context: we were at our company retreat when HR made a presentation that we are all to return to office, starting next week. There are people with parents and pets who will need to find accommodations with no notice. It's also a software company so a lot of our workforce does not need to be in office.

They stated plenty of reasons why we need to return to office, but those problems they listed will not go away with forcing people to be in office. They have huge issues with prioritizing a road map and effectively communicating on a large scale (we have 3 office locations across the US) so being in person won't help any of that.

We were never once polled to get our opinions or comfort level. In fact, one of the decision makers told me they didn't poll the workers because they knew the majority wanted to stay home.

My coworker shared this article on slack that stated the best collaboration and employee happiness happens when employees are allowed to go in on their own accord. I replied stating that I liked the article and pointed out a part in particular that stood out to me.

HR person who gave the tactless mandate announcement sent this meeting invite to us and included our boss and the COO.

We are being silenced for speaking our minds.

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u/GFTRGC Sep 24 '22

Do you have an intranet that shows who this HR rep works for? Invite their boss as well, then very bluntly say that you feel you are being retaliated against for disagreeing with a decision. It's key for you to use the word "retaliation" it's a major buzz word for HR as it's illegal and can open the company up to lawsuits.

Very clearly state that the aggressive and threatening tone of the meeting invite makes you feel unsafe and creates a "hostile environment in the workplace" considering that a member of HR is the one initiating and creating this environment which means you don't feel you have anyone you can go to.

This will very quickly flip the script on this jackass in HR as his boss will want/need to take this seriously because it will sound as if HR is harassing employees for disagreeing with him and then retaliating against them.

HR should know better than to send out a meeting invite like this.

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u/abtei Sep 24 '22

He didn't even disagree with the decision (per se). only that this article lists a lot of reasons why WfH is good.

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u/oryx_za Sep 24 '22

This is crazy.

The title of the meeting in itself is crazy.

On reflection, do you think you were cheeky or abrasive or did you just say "gee, this looks interesting, I agree with point x"

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

The title cracks me up now lmao.

My response was:

"Good share, (coworker). There are a lot of really good points in there that they backed up with extensive data from interviews.

"The most successful companies are the ones that are backing off demands that workers be in the office a certain percentage of the work week. Instead, they create times of the week where workers have the opportunity to be with each other—and strongly urge everyone to be there at that time, while acknowledging the sacrifice that will require" stood out to me among others"

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u/Spirited_Island-75 Sep 24 '22

Why, how dare you suggest that your company is not amongst the most successful!

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

HR stated in the presentation that they don't care what other companies are doing lol

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u/UnionizeAutoZone Sep 24 '22

Successful companies always care about what the competition is doing because successful companies are always aiming to outperform the competition. Your workplace sounds like a sinking ship. Sounds like it's time to start updating your resume, because even if they don't fire you now, they may be laying everyone off soon.

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u/oryx_za Sep 24 '22

Lmao, crazy they reacted like that. Sounds like your boss is a tool.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Yeah dude. The woman in charge of HR is the same person who calls unhoused people "vagrants" and told ne that the company couldn't comment on Roe v Wade being overturned bc of politics but they gave everyone time off when Trump was elected and compared us not being in the office to the Ukranian Russian conflict lmao. Utterly unfit for the role.

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u/GingerMau Sep 24 '22 Silver

OMG she's going to let some awful shit come out of her mouth during this meeting.

You MUST record it.

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u/Assholejack89 Sep 24 '22

You should have asked: Sooooo, who is Russia here and who is Ukraine? Because I only see one side pushing demands here....

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u/bgplsa Sep 24 '22

My standard advice in these situations applies: attend meeting, remain silent, nod noncommittally, find another job.

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u/fohpo02 Sep 24 '22

You should bring to those points in the meeting, citing disrespect and close-mindedness then suggest that there’s a hostile work environment and that they need to attend a diversity/discrimination training.

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u/davou Communist Sep 24 '22

be sure to at some point in your meeting say "I am anxious that I will be retaliated against for participating in what is clearly a conversation that will affect my quality of life and employment"

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u/JanusMZeal11 Sep 24 '22

If you are in a 1 party consent state, record the conversation. If your in a 2 party, tell them and if they refuse, tell them to please reschedule after you retain a lawyer.

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u/ErisGrey Sep 24 '22

I'm in a two party consent state for recording. That doesn't mean that the other party has to give permission to allow you to record, it merely means they must be notified of the recording.

Years battling with Social Security Doctors, I learned this. They would always try to find some money hungry doctor who would say I was fit for work. My SSDI lawyer told me to record my appointments, don't accept no, just notify them.

Plenty of doctors had no problem with me recording, and they gave accurate reports when compared to the recordings. However, there were 4 separate doctors over the past 10 years that put on a full Broadway show on why I can't record.

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u/mylifeinCAisEffed Sep 24 '22 LOVE! Eureka!

I would read this. Back when I worked in HR this was called the section 7 water-cooler law in CA (I think). Now it's just a standard under the National Labor relations board. You are absolutely allowed to discuss this as they've made it a condition of employment. I would then ask them if they assume I was trying to unionize the workers which you were considering but havent moved forward because of the condition not being safe for those with medical conditions especially at your current pay rate as the costs of healthcare expenses would rise due to expected sicknesses with the current endemic. This would further protect you as any retaliation could result in a hefty lawsuit. You might be able to squeeze a raise out of it and protection!

"The NLRA’s employee protections also extend to employees who, although not affiliated with a union, engage in concerted, protected activity. Concerted, protected activity is an activity engaged in by one or more employees with the intention of improving the terms and conditions of employment of all employees.

Examples of protected concerted activity include complaints from a group of employees about wage rates and benefits and discussions between employees about wages and benefits. Employers should not maintain work rules that prohibit employees from discussing their wages or benefits with co-workers, as such rules generally violate the NLRA."

https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/employment-and-labor-laws/federal/nlra/

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u/SmellsLikeBu11shit Sep 24 '22

Not seeing how any of this is in any way disrespectful

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u/LaGranGata Sep 24 '22

I know you already replied to the comment about recording it. Might as well set up your phone prior to the meeting and make it a full blown presentation. Especially if you come prepared with questions that HR was unwilling to answer, like how to deal with pets and children in a no notice order.

Some ones I'd recommend broaching: What part of this made you feel disrespected? Do you feel like any employees felt respected in your decision to mandate us without input? Should respect go both ways? Will you be providing childcare services as there is no time to prepare employees for this sudden shift? If you believe being in an office is part of the culture then how is it employees prefer WFH? Has company performance improved during WFH? Who hurt you? What exactly about my comment was disrespectful? Do you believe in life after love? Are you prepared for the immediate drop in productivity as employees scramble to change their lives around your no-notice mandate? What work was not being accomplished from home that would be addressed in house at the cost of an additional (insert avg) amount of transportation time and getting people up earlier that could not be done at home? Are you prepared for many people to leave the organization because of your failure to plan accordingly?

And then maybe throw a smoke bomb and disappear. But I would definitely video it if you could so people know what's being said behind closed doors.

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u/Caleth Sep 24 '22

Too often respect is a.code word for subservience. You're not groveling and licking their boots so respect isn't being paid.

Never mind respect is earn, and a two way street. This company has no respect for their employees and is probably about to learn in this economy that's a problem for the company.

I'd expect to hear no one wants to work and other horse shit phrases in the near future.

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u/Fun-Syrup1574 Sep 24 '22

Forward the meeting invite to everyone at the company lol

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u/Graphitetshirt Sep 24 '22

Was your comment on a company site or channel? Or was it on regular social media?

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Company slack.

My response was:

"Good share, (coworker). There are a lot of really good points in there that they backed up with extensive data from interviews.

"The most successful companies are the ones that are backing off demands that workers be in the office a certain percentage of the work week. Instead, they create times of the week where workers have the opportunity to be with each other—and strongly urge everyone to be there at that time, while acknowledging the sacrifice that will require" stood out to me among others"

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u/county259 Sep 24 '22

Sounds like HR got their panties in a twist and are trying to make much ado about nothing.

Personally I would approach the meeting with a "What is the problem attitude?'" From there all will depend on individual personalities because from the title on the agenda this meeting is total bullshit.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

I'm going to play dumb. I really don't see what rules I broke here. All I know is that my trust is fully broken at this company and this feels like the final straw.

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u/PessimiStick Sep 24 '22

You should just decline the meeting.

For extra cheek-factor, send the response with "I don't engage in office drama."

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u/commandoash Sep 24 '22

Just yawn every time they try to speak. If they ask why you are doing it, say it is because you had to get up extra early to travel into the office for the stupid meeting. If it was remote you could have got the appropriate amount of sleep.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Hahaha malicious compliance

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u/teapot_in_orbit Sep 24 '22

I think this could be a tactic to force workers out prior to layoffs and avoid paying out severance. Might be worth it to stick it out a bit.

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u/sammybeme93 Sep 24 '22

This. My company made the same move this week, forcing people back into the office. After trying to figure out the logic behind the move my only conclusion is they want people to quit.

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u/Epsilon_Meletis Sep 24 '22

The real conclusion is then, of course, to let them fire you.

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u/DissonantWhispers Sep 24 '22

The extreme push to return to office is 100% about control. Middle/upper management care more about being able to feel like they’re in control of their employees than they do about the obvious research that shows FORCING a RTO is, at best, disruptive to their business, or at worst destructive.

COVID really proved that people could do their jobs from home BETTER and have a better work/life balance. There are some jobs that require being in person but 95% of corporate jobs are NOT that.

I luckily work for a department in my company that allows you to come in when you want. I’ve been coming in once a week and really enjoy that 1 day in person and if I lived closer I’d probably do 2 days a week. This is because I have the choice to go in. It has allowed me to see the personal value I find with being there in person. If I was forced to be there I’d just feel completely jaded because I’ve proven my self as a WFH employee and am basically being forced to disrupt my way of life to go sit in an office doing work that can, and has, been done at home.

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u/felltheblackwolf Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

My boss is so against WFH that he'd rather I just take PTO to deal with appointments and stuff.

He also has been bugging me EVERY DAY since I got COVID to test negative so I can come back to the office. Like...I'm working, just not where you can see me. And if you want me to test every day, YOU can pay for the damned tests.

He also worked from home the entire time he had COVID. Which wouldn't have been possible for me anyway because I was bedridden for 3 days with a 102° fever and a severe headache.

Utter nonsense.

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u/JahoclaveS Sep 24 '22

We have a new department head that has insisted on weekly get together meetings that are more appropriate for children’s birthday parties than a business. Thank god I’m remote and can just mute that shit.

And it’s really because she’s upset she has no office social club anymore because her whole office location was moved remote.

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u/Experience-Early Sep 24 '22

The manager is an imbecile to approach the meeting with that subject. It's only going to end up confrontational. Presumably the meeting is merely a rhetorical toy throwing exercise. Saying that it's best to start making moves and not focus too much on the meeting or it's outcome. WFH policies at some firms aren't presented as a debate, they are informing the staff of the new mandate. 🙁

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Yes! It's a ploy to silence anyone from speaking out.

I'm actively applying elsewhere, this shit is too toxic and I have recruiters reaching out almost daily.

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u/badgerbadger1988 Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

I remember a similar meeting I had once, they demoted me and wanted to talk about my negative attitude. It was painful

"we just wanted to speak to you about your attitude" "OK..?" ... ... "well there's a really good atmosphere on the team" "yeah!" ... ... "you are being very negative" "am I?" ... "do you have a specific example?" "Well... No" ... ... "Well if you spot anything be sure to mention it to me while you still remember because I certainly haven't noticed anything. Anything else?" ... ... "no"

Gaslight the fuckers

Go in there as if you have no idea what they're talking about. Make them walk you through it step by step

No I don't know why I'm here please explain Did I mention the company? Did I mention you? How did you find it then? What makes you think it's aimed at you? What makes you think I can control your thoughts? What would make anyone reading that think it was aimed at you? What language exactly is disrespectful? Am I contractually obligated to hold specific opinions? Is there a contractual social media policy? Is it company policy to hold meetings when people exercise their rights?

ETA

Don't even admit you remember the post

Did I? Can you show me? Oh, can't you find it? I haven't deleted anything What do you mean that's the post? I never really gave it any thought I still don't understand

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u/happymage102 Sep 24 '22

HR is terrified of litigious individuals. The only people they fear are the ones who know exactly what they're trained to do and how to act and come entirely prepared with the exact same mindset. Totally fucks the power dynamic.

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u/Sekhen Sep 24 '22

Taking your job role personally... I've worked for such a person. Get out, nothing good will come from this.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22 Hugz

I'm not. I'm actively looking for other roles now. They've lost my trust and respect

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u/Amyare Sep 24 '22

Hard Pass on the Disrespect Me meeting, but I’d accept the Super Fun Happy Talk.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

It's with other coworkers to complain about the mandate hahah

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u/pheonixblade9 Sep 24 '22

invite those coworkers to the meeting with HR

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u/swunt7 Sep 24 '22

Lol... if they sent that meeting to you... scheduled for the end of monday work day. youre already fired in their books.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

I plan on sharing all of this info with my peers if they fire me so they can see how this company truly works

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u/-Kazen- Sep 24 '22

You might want to have something pretyped just incase. If the company is really scummy they'll remove your email access pretty quickly and or try to escort you out

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u/Mrs_Kevina Sep 24 '22 Take My Energy

Employ the 'Delayed Send' feature in Outlook...that way if your escorted out, it still goes out. If you're not, you can cancel it at least if you'd like.

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u/Caleth Sep 24 '22 Helpful

Yep I'm in IT. We get calls about two-five montues before someone is fired and told to kill their access asap. Then flush the current logins.

So something exactly like this can't happen. If you really expect to be fired make preparations ahead of time.

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u/commandoash Sep 24 '22

Attempt to zoom into the meeting instead of going in person to T pose on those scrubs

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Here's the best part - my job is going to be remote regardless, even if I go into the office bc my coworkers (including everyone else in this meeting) are in another state. So I will be joining virtually

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u/Leisurelyescape Sep 24 '22

Good luck, have fun, remember to get jiggy with it

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Hell yes my dude it's gonna be a party

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u/TheOT1001 Sep 24 '22

Decline the invite lol

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Hahaha even better bc the invite said "this is a mandatory meeting"

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ashen-wolf Sep 24 '22

There is no scenario where your company will be relevant in the long run if you treat IT PEOPLE like this.

There is nothing more adaptable and versatile than an IT guy, theres a reason why they always been the ones in shorts on an office.

Terribly shortsighted.

Also, disrespect to ME? Someone needs therapy.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

They are moving towards the direction of caring more about sales people to sell more product rather than build out their engineering team to support the influx of customers and feature requests.

Your points are all 100% right.

And yeah, the fact that she took it personally is laughable. I was never thinking of her specifically when I replied to that comment. Now I am

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u/Orestes85 Sep 24 '22 edited 25d ago

This is the roadmap for software companies. I'm in IT and we (well, mostly my boss) deal with this too frequently. Last week I requested an engineer from an XDR developer to link up with on Teams to help me set some polices with my XDR and I got a response from Sales...from a support ticket. After figuring out why and telling them I needed an engineer I have yet to get a response from the availability I gave them (which is now past).

A startup breaks out and makes it with a really great product, has issues, but they hit it out of the park with support.

Not long after it seems the only people you can talk to at the company are barely old enough to drink "account executives" trying to sell us 'new features' and have no idea how they integrate with anything, can't answer shit for questions, repeats some version of "This product is <buzzword bullshit scrum agile innovated next gen solution NASA uses it! future of computing super duper secure sha1 98 way encrypted private cloud>"

Support takes a week or more and responds in the ticket, to a sysadmin, a dumbass response like "have you tried restarting it" like we have no idea how to troubleshoot our systems. Most likely because their support is a contracted MSP who has Level 1 help desk responding to support tickets generated from a L2 and L3 admins because the product is BROKEN because they FIRED ALL THEIR GOOD DEVELOPERS.

/end rant.

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Yes yes yes holy shit do we work together? Lol

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u/Beastdevr Sep 24 '22

I personally would smile and insincerly agree. Like very obvious insincerity, I feel it would make them even more mad.

Also I don't know about your area but mine has huge amounts of competition with hiring devs so being haughty often leads to dev departments disappearing never to return. I recently turned down an interview that wanted hybrid rather than fully remote and the recruiter just replied with sad resignation that himself and the head of development has told the non-technical exec pushing hybrid that they can't compete

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u/backand_forth Sep 24 '22

Yep! I get emails almost daily from recruiters for fully remote roles. I used to ignore them and move on.

I'm going to be a bucket of god damn sunshine in this meeting but list out why I don't understand how any of this is disrespectful. If anything, they disrespected the staff by enforcing this mandate without informing even our managers.

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u/NotCreative3854 Sep 24 '22

My software company was going to try and bring everyone back twice a week last year but quickly walked it back once they realized how much it pissed everyone off. If you end up getting fired we’re hiring for fully remote positions!

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u/CaptainZippi Sep 24 '22

Bring a pad and pen, take note of everything that they say, and then read it back to them asking “so, did I get that right?”. Then answer their question minimally as possible without committing to anything. If pressed, say that you’ll have to consult with your legal advisor before giving an official reply.

Do that a lot.

(Disclaimer - I’m in the UK and maybe this is a bad idea in the US (I presume))

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